Positive Psychiatry - with Rakesh Jain, MD
Positive Psychiatry with Rakesh Jain, MD explores the science and practice of fostering mental wellness, resilience, and flourishing through the lens of psychiatry. Join me as I discuss articles and opinions from expert clinicians, researchers, and thought leaders as they discuss emerging strategies to enhance well-being, purpose, and strengths—not just reduce symptoms. From gratitude and optimism to meaning and connection, this podcast brings evidence-based insights into the heart of mental healthcare.
I am additionally a proud member of the Steering Committee of Psych Congress. This year's annual meeting is September 17-21 in San Diego, California.
Positive Psychiatry - with Rakesh Jain, MD
Flourishing, Not Just Functioning: Top 10 Tips for Positive Psychiatry Practitioners
What if traditional psychiatry has been missing half the equation? While treating symptoms matters, patients ultimately want more—they want to flourish, not just function.
In this groundbreaking conversation between Dr. Rakesh Jain and wellness expert Dr. Saundra Jain, we unpack ten transformative tips for clinicians seeking to master positive psychiatry. This isn't about replacing traditional approaches but enhancing them with evidence-based practices that nurture wellness alongside treating illness.
You'll discover how shifting from a problem-centric to a wellness-centric mindset transforms the therapeutic relationship. Learn practical ways to incorporate strengths-based interviewing, turning routine appointments into opportunities for growth and hope. We explore how simple interventions like the "three good things" practice can produce measurable improvements in well-being, even when practiced for just one week.
The conversation delves into neuroplasticity as a scientific foundation for hope, helping patients see themselves as "becoming" rather than broken. We examine how meaning-making accelerates healing and why lifestyle factors deserve recognition as primary psychiatric interventions. You'll gain insights into measuring flourishing—not just pathology—with tools like the PERMA profiler and WHO-5 wellness scale.
Perhaps most importantly, we address why clinicians must embody these principles themselves. As Dr. Saundra Jain powerfully states, "Our presence, how we show up... that is the intervention, that is the medicine."
Whether you're a psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, nurse practitioner, social worker, or simply curious about wellness, these science-backed approaches will expand your practice and uplift your perspective. Try implementing just one tip this week and witness how it transforms both your patient interactions and your own well-being.
www.JainUplift.com
Well, hello and welcome, dear friends and colleagues, to another episode of Positive Psychiatry with Dr Rakesh Jain. I'm, of course, rakesh, and I'm delighted to have you with us today for a very special episode, and this episode is an exploration into the top 10 tips for clinicians to become expert practitioners of positive psychiatry. I think this is a very meaningful conversation and we have a special guest with us. And before I introduce the special guest, please know I really thought long and hard about who to invite. Who's done the most work in this area? And immediately the name that came to mind was Dr Sandra Jan, who is an adjunct affiliate at the University of Texas School of Nursing, as well as in private practice, and she has been working in this area for well over a decade and a half, so we're going to really leverage her knowledge and her education. So, sandra, having said that, welcome to the podcast, and perhaps you might want to take a minute to say hello to our listeners and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Oh, I'd be so happy to Rakesh. Like Rakesh said, I'm Sondra Jan, and the world of wellness, whether it be in clinical practice or just in regular day-to-day living, is really a heart passion for me, and Rakesh as well, but this is a mainstay part of my work and daily living. I'm absolutely thrilled to be here with you today, rakesh, and all of your viewers. You know as I thought about our conversation today. You know this journey it's not just theoretical, it's not academic, it is practical, actionable and, oh my goodness, it is so deeply relevant to all of us and, honestly, that's whether you're a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a therapist, nurse, practitioner, social worker or hey, how about? Just a curious learner. We believe that this episode, this very conversation, will expand our practices and uplift our perspectives about wellness. I couldn't be happier to be here today.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Well, thank you very much. I certainly appreciate you being here, and I'm sure our colleagues do too. And let's perhaps level set here, because positive psychiatry isn't a denial of suffering. It's, in fact, a deep acknowledgement that healing includes growth and meaning and resilience. It's so much more than simple symptom reduction. And these top 10 tips we're about to share with you they're all, in fact, based in science, our experience, and, I have to say, we genuinely believe in them.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:You're so right, rakesh. So together, we want to invite all of you Settle in. You may want to grab your journal or you may want to take a walk while you listen However you like to learn. This episode is just for you.
Rakesh Jain, MD:That's wonderful, sandra. So let's begin with tip number one. So tip number one is foundational. It is the following Adopt a wellness-centric mindset. This is absolutely foundational, dear colleagues, because the art and practice of shifting from a problem-centric to a wellness-centric mindset is important, but it's not all that easy to do. Most of us have been fairly indoctrinated in the problem-centric practice, because that is traditional psychiatry. We often focus on what's wrong, we rarely ask what's strong. Let me say that again we focus on what's wrong, sandra, and we don't often ask or focus on what's strong. So what do you think about that?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Oh, I got so excited, Rakesh. I just stepped right on your words because what I was going to say is I love the practice of asking people what's strong in your life and you know, I think it's important that we share with everyone that our greatest teachers about wellness have been our patients over these many years and we learn from them that this really, like you said before, is not the pursuit of ignoring illness, but it's really the practice of holding both suffering and strength in the same clinical space, in the same conversation. We can even say we can hold both in both our hands, because we can truly recognize pathology, illness, whatever we want to call it, and at the same time, we can promote and enrich growth, purpose and really true vitality and flourishing.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Well said, sandra, because here's the thing Patients want to flourish, not just function, and that is something we've discussed in previous podcasts. The research is quite convincing on this Patients want to flourish, not just function. So when we adopt a wellness orientation, we in fact invite our patients to dream, to hope and, of course, to build.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Yeah, and as I'm listening to you, rakesh, what comes to mind is I'm remembering patients, and sometimes that can feel like a lot, or it can certainly feel unfamiliar. So I believe it's important to start with small changes. Sometimes we call that baby steps. We ask about the meaning in their lives. We can even acknowledge progress along the way and begin to incorporate wellness into every single treatment plan, because, if we're honest, a treatment plan without wellness it's just incomplete.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Well said, Well said. And perhaps this is time for me to admit that for decades of my clinical practice, wellness actually never figured anywhere in my thinking or in my recommendations. But I would say maybe in the last decade and a half I've really come to recognize that our patients really do want more. So that is tip number one, dear colleagues. Tip number one is our mindset, but it does set the tone for everything else that follows. Well, what is tip two, Sandra?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:All right, let's dive in. Tip two is incorporating strengths-based interviewing into every single patient encounter, every conversation.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Okay, let's be honest. Most clinical interviews that I've ever conducted start with what brings you in today or what's wrong. But what if we instead asked what gives you meaning? Tell me one thing since I've last seen you, what has gone well? Tell me one thing since I've last seen you, what has gone well? Tell me one thing since I've last seen you, a few weeks or a few months ago, that you really enjoyed. I don't think, sandra, that at all discludes or, you know, puts down their suffering if they have any sets of symptoms. But I think it completely changes the tone of the conversation to start the clinical interview the way one might with a friend. I mean, if I meet a friend, sandra, I don't necessarily want to hear, nor do I ask questions what's wrong. I often say what's good, what's been happening? Tell me something good that's been going on in your life. So perhaps we could do that. What do you think, even in our clinical interviewing?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Yeah, I mean, I love that, Rakesh. You know, the one thing that I often ask people is this what's the most exciting thing you've done since we've last met? And I have to say, as I've begun to incorporate that into my language, people are kind of shocked by that because they're waiting for me to ask them what do you want to talk about today? Right? So really, looking at what's exciting, you know, Rakesh, I know you're familiar with VIA character strengths, but some of those joining us today they may not be. So let me take just a minute and explain that.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:The VIA classification it's a framework that was developed really by the godfather of positive psychology, Dr Marty Seligman and Dr Chris Peterson, and their goal was to identify and measure core human strengths, All the things that contribute and really build and nourish a meaningful and really fulfilling life. So things like curiosity, kindness, perseverance, compassion, and these really can help our patients, serve, as I guess we could call it, a clinical anchor, but to ground them. And I know I know this true, Rakesh that you and I have both seen this in the people that we've worked with over these many years. Honestly, they light up when we help them rediscover their strengths.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yeah, and while that may seem like a lot to do in a med check visit, perhaps, or a psychotherapy visit, here's an expert tip that I got from you, sandra, which is just one single strength-based question during one particular interaction with a person is enough, and maybe I can give you an example. Yesterday I was meeting a 31-year-old who is going through some very rough times and I asked him because his signature strength is perseverance. He really holds himself and his ability to stick it out as one of his great strengths, and I made sure that he and I discussed his previous strength, that we still find it, even as he's going through his difficult times, and a recognition that I admire him for his strength-based approach to life. It radically changed our conversation about a discussion of his mental health challenges, because such conversations open doors.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Yeah, you know, I believe when we do that, rakesh, it really is an opportunity for the person that we're talking with to really feel seen and heard and acknowledged. And, honestly, when we do what you just described, look, we're no longer just gathering data, but we really are nurturing hope for those people, and that absolutely is a beautiful thing.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Wow. Let's end this tip by me repeating what you just taught us, because when we talk about strengths, right along with the weaknesses and challenges the person is experiencing, we're not just gathering data, but we are nurturing hope. Thank you so much. Now let's transition to tip number three, which is integrate positive interventions into treatment, no matter what the treatment might be Pharmacotherapy, psychotherapy, combination so tip three is about action combination. So tip three is about action integrating positive interventions into your clinical work.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Well, think about this, rakesh. We, as clinicians, we are evidence-based, we want to know what's been proven. And these practices they are scientifically validated exercise, things like we could do, gratitude journaling, a simple act of kindness, or future visualization, like a practice in visualizing the next best version of yourself. And we said it earlier, but I think it's worth repeating these are small practices. This, these may be baby steps, but, my goodness, they are mighty in terms of improved outcomes no doubt about that, sandra.
Rakesh Jain, MD:gratitude is, though, one of those gifts that never stop giving. They really don't, and I think we ought to be teaching our patients about that. So, for instance, there's a practice that you and I have actually talked about, both in our clinical work but in our professional teachings of individuals, called the three good things practice, which is writing down three positive things that have happened each day to the person. While that may seem incredibly small, sandra, I think you and I would join forces in reassuring our listeners that doing this, even for one single week, just seven times, has shown measurable effects on improved well-being and decrease in depression.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Absolutely.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:And one thing I'll add that I've learned in using this practice with my patients is this I almost always ask them to do it in the evening, each night, before they go to bed.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Now they may decide not to do that, and that's perfectly fine, but here's my reasoning behind that invitation to do it at bedtime. Usually at night, when people settle in, the lights go out, it's the time when the rumination and the worries tend to creep in, and so if people can end their day on three good things, it's a little bit of a buffer, a way to push back some of the ruminative thinking and drift into sleep with these three good things that happen during the day. And, rakesh, you're so right. I mean, we really are trying to practice what we preach, and we have done this exercise and exactly what you said. It is a boost to well-being, and if mood isn't great, it also lifts mood. So in some ways, it's like assigning these practices, a little bit like emotional rehab, if you will, or a prescription for really building inner strength and resilience, or a prescription for really building inner strength and resilience Got it.
Rakesh Jain, MD:That is beautiful. So that shifts us to tip number four, which is well, I'll let you talk about that, sandra.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Well, it's what we mentioned earlier, Tip four. I mean, it is all about hope. That's rooted in science. Now, let's see if this sits well with you, but we're going to invite you to educate your patients about neuroplasticity. I want you to know I've seen it work time and time again because once folks learn that the brain really can change, it instills a sense of hope in them and they will begin to change. They will begin to follow through with all the prescriptions for wellness that we're offering to them. That sense of hope is magic.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yes, when we tell our patients your brain can change. You know that may sound like just a throwaway comment, but you know, the fact is it's actually true. We're giving them more than information. We're giving them the possibility of change right.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Absolutely, and I want to tell you and for all of those with us today, this is how I do it. I show them simple images of how practices like mindfulness or behavioral activation, behavioral practices, actually alter neural pathways. I'll use metaphors like oh, it's like muscle training or physical therapy for the brain, and those kind of metaphors really resonate with folks.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yeah, and also love the fact that we can frame setbacks that our patients have as part of the growth process. That really is positive psychiatry. Positive psychiatry is not a fake vapors Everything is okay and everything will be all right. It even accepts that setbacks are part of the growth process and patients then stop seeing themselves as broken. They start seeing themselves as becoming.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:So Beautifully stated, rakesh. I mean that's worth saying again they're not broken. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Rakesh Jain, MD:And they're becoming, yes, they're becoming. So a psychopharmacologist who's listening to us might say but my job is to know side effects of medications and what dose to prescribe. And I would say this, sandra, as a psychopharmacologist myself absolutely, we do need to be true experts in our medications. But perhaps the question to ask ourselves might be don't we need to first be experts in people? And if we are experts in people before we're experts in psychopharmacology, then perhaps we should help our patients stop seeing themselves as broken and start seeing themselves as becoming. Now we move on to tip number five. My goodness, I'm really liking this conversation, sandra, and I am genuinely, I'm pretty convinced that our listeners are also feeling the same way and appreciating your expertise. So tip number five is making meaning a clinical priority, because meaning making is not fluff, it's medicine. That is an important tip, right, sandra?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Oh, absolutely, rakesh. I mean we sometimes as psychotherapists are accused of being a little too touchy-feely, a little too woo-woo, but honestly, the relationship, this is a relational transaction between two people and it's not fluff, it is healing. And one of the ways over the years I've learned to really amplify, highlight all of this work is by integrating things like existential tools, definitely somatic practices, pulling in what we talked about earlier, the values, clarification and narrative therapy, because it really does help people connect their story to something much deeper. We kind of move, not away from, because we still want symptom reduction. We're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we're still doing that.
Rakesh Jain, MD:But we really are digging into meaning making of one's symptoms. That of course we clinicians would help a patient understand it can actually come shining through. And just in the last week I met a lady who sadly lost her spouse and went through a horrendous weekend. Horrendous weekend but she converted, with some help from me at looking at it not just as horrendous pain but horrendously important need for remembrance of what she had lost. So as she came out of it from the other end we stopped looking at it just as DSM-5 symptoms, but looking at a human who was mourning the loss of her spouse and recreating a life that she had completely lost. So when we help patients locate that meaning, we are accelerating recovery right.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Oh, so beautifully described, and I'm really feeling that the woman that you were helping really benefited from the conversation, because what you're pointing out is, by doing this, we begin to build and nourish this relationship person to person, and that becomes the anchor, that becomes what grounds them as they walk through like we all walk through challenges in this life. Well, we are at the halfway mark, rakesh, if you can believe it. Out of our 10 tips, we've just completed five. So how about we do this? Let's pause for a moment. I'd like to invite everyone to simply take a deep breath in and then slowly exhale through the mouth. You may want to stand up and stretch, walk around a little bit and reflect on what we've talked about so far. What's landed with you, what's really resonated?
Rakesh Jain, MD:And maybe even journal a line or two. I, in fact, very often when I'm listening to podcasts, sandra, I'll often journal on my smartphone, on my notes, and then reflect upon it. So I encourage our colleagues to, you know, think about what we've been discussing and see how it applies to you. And then let's now return, maybe for five more tips. What do you say, sandra?
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yes, I'm ready if you are Rakesh, I am, and I'm going to cover the last five tips pretty quickly, with your help, sandra. So tip number six is addressing lifestyle as psychiatry. So psychiatry should no longer be seen as a specialty that only takes care of symptoms, but of people with symptoms, and that's why addressing lifestyle is emerging to be one of my favorites Treat lifestyle as the primary psychiatric intervention.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Well and Rakesh, there are so many options that we can draw from. Let me just run through a couple. I mean we can pull from physical activity. Now, sometimes that pulls up exercise. People may not be wanting to do that, so we can soften it back a little bit and just call it movement walking around the block, standing up and stretching, sleep hygiene, or simply resting periodically throughout the day. How about community and social connection? We talk a lot about nutrition, eating clean. I love the language of nourishment, because nourishment is not only for the body but for the mind, the soul and the spirit and, honestly, these practices are as vital as any medication a clinician can prescribe.
Rakesh Jain, MD:That's so true. That is so true. Instead of saying to patients for example, did you get 30 minutes of exercise a day to help with your heart health or your mind health? Perhaps, if we are followers of positive psychiatry, we could rephrase that by asking when was your last joyful walk? When was your last meaningful conversation with someone you had met for the very first time? This radically changes the way people look at lifestyle, doesn't it?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Well in the language about asking about when was your last joyful walk. It just softens the entire experience and really invites people into the experience. So I mean honestly, these kind of simple changes really can become catalysts for deep, transformative healing. All right, rakesh, we're at tip seven, let's go.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Hope is not passive. It's a skill that you can learn and Snyder's hope theory, which focuses on goals, pathways and agency. We can help patients visualize what they want, how to get there and why they believe they can. The injection of hope into our conversation, into our patients, I think is as valuable as a long-acting injectable is. Sandra.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:I love that. And let's remember, let's ask future-oriented questions. Sometimes we get stuck in the problem focus, but by future-orienting we can help patients envision their future selves, what they desire.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Well said, sandra, well said. Now it is clearly not our goal to give people false hope. So to perhaps tell someone with, let's say, bipolar disorder that you are never, ever going to have another episode would be false hope. It'll come back to hurt the patient, hurt our relationship. But to give them the hope that with the right efforts we can not only restore your functionality but there's great reason to believe we can restore your wellness as well. And to have that conversation proactively is, I think, what you are saying. So reinforcing their capacity for hope, reminding them of past successes is just so incredibly important. And, sandra, tip number eight is something you excel at. I got to see that in action maybe 30 plus years ago. And tip number eight is build warm, authentic alliance. That is a foundational principle of positive psychiatry. So tip number eight is simple but profound Connect. Connect with your clients and patients with warm and authenticity.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Yes, rakesh, because the truth of the matter is that's all any of us want is a connection with other human beings, a connection with other human beings. So therapeutic alliance just the fancy way of saying connection that is a powerful agent of change. I mean, I'd go so far as to say it is the most powerful of all of them, being fully present, authentic and human.
Rakesh Jain, MD:I love it, sandra. I'm just going to flat out repeat everything you said, so that it becomes part of my DNA. The therapeutic alliance is a powerful agent of change and you said, sandra, you go as far as to say it's one of the, if not the most powerful of all tools we can use in being fully present, being human. And what I would encourage? My very busy colleagues, all of you, therapists, prescribers, people who do both. You're busy, got it? But even in the space of a 10-minute, 15-minute connection with the patient, use, let's all use these micro affirmations reflecting on the patient's strengths, right back to them. Patients are strong. They sometimes forget it. They need to be reminded, right, sandra?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Absolutely. I mean Rakesh. This is the truth. When patients feel deeply, seen and heard, acknowledged, healing happens. It actually accelerates. We've seen it happen time and time again.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Beautiful when patients feel seen and heard, genuinely human to human. You're completely right. Healing is accelerated and that relationship is cemented for life. You're so right. Well, tell us about tip number nine.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Happy to you know we are both big believers in measurement-based care. So tip nine is all about tracking flourishing, not just pathology. Do both, but don't overlook well-being and teaching our patients about actually every week looking at how they're doing. Are they making progress? Are they struggling? That measurement-based care makes a huge difference in outcomes.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yeah, lots of tools. Lots of tools are available and if folks listening in are just like me, they have not been exposed to it in their formal training and I get it so down the road. We are definitely going to have few scales to consider and try them out, folks. The PERMA profiler P-E-R-M-A profiler. The second one is a scale Sandra and I have used quite extensively in our research practice, which is the WHO5, w-h-o-5 wellness scale. Try it out. It's available quite easily from the internet. The brief resilience scale is wonderful, and there's a scale that Sandra and I have developed and validated called the HERO H-E-R-O wellness scale. There'll be much, much more on that in future podcasts. So don't worry if you don't feel entirely comfortable with knowing about these scales, but you might want to start the process of getting more used to measuring not just illness but also perhaps the level of wellness or its absence, so that we can guide our patients in the right direction, right, sandra?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Oh, such a great suggestion, rakesh. I mean honestly what we measure, we prioritize and when patients know that we're prioritizing wellness, we're initiating and encouraging that conversation about wellness. They feel it and they're happy to continue the conversation.
Rakesh Jain, MD:They feel it and they're happy to continue the conversation. You're dropping a lot of awesome zingers in this podcast, sandra. What you said is what we measure, we prioritize. You are so right, and you're also right about what you said. When we prioritize wellness, patients not only feel it, they know it's a priority that they need to have and if they need help, we stand by to help them. So perhaps making it a standard question to ask how are you thriving since the last time I have seen you, colleagues, you should just take my word for it for the time being, until you try it out yourself. Just that very short six-word sentence if you start using it in clinical encounters, that being how are you thriving this week? Just saying that will open up the floodgates to a whole new level of conversation we've never had with our patients. So we've covered nine tips so far, and the final one is tip number 10, walk the walk, walk the walk, which is clinicians, should self-practice wellness that we must embody, what we treat. What do you say, sandra?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Absolutely. I mean simply put positive. Psychiatry begins with the practitioner. If we want our patients to flourish, we must too. And that suggestion of embodying what we teach beautifully stated Rakesh.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yes, and you are certainly someone over the last three decades I've seen learn about this academically and then you started applying it to your life. And as you started applying it to your life, it really seeps into your clinical encounters and you know what Patients really benefit. So, folks, the message we're getting from our expert, dr Sandra Jain, is practice what you preach. Well, you might say I knew that, but now we have clear direction that practicing what we preach on this issue will just benefit not just us but our patients as well. So, thinking about factors like gratitude, connection, feelings of awe, even movement, and enjoying movement, let's make it our medicine too. We clinicians really are struggling quite a bit with burnout and what Sandra is recommending the positive psychiatry approaches, the 10 tips that we've talked about aren't just good for our patients. They're, in fact, good for us.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Yes, and I would add one last thing, rakesh, that our presence, how we show up, the one thing that we're in control of, how we show up, that is the intervention, that is the medicine.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Beautiful. There you have it, folks 10 transformative tips in all of us becoming even a greater expert in positive psychiatry than we were yesterday. Thanks so much, sandra.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:I'm so glad to have shared this time with you, rakesh, and hoping that this wasn't just information, a data dump, but that it really is, and has been, inspiring for all of us.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yeah, I feel it is. I genuinely feel it is, and what I would encourage for our colleagues is to take one tip, try one, try it for this week and then you've got these 10 tips and I'm certainly hoping you'll discuss it with your colleagues, because sometimes just the act of conversation about these issues with a colleague can really help. And, sandra, you said this before that it's not about perfection, it's about practice and presence and intention and hope. Say more about that, will you?
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Absolutely. I mean, we, I think, are trained to go to the treatment plan, the modality, the intervention. And if we just step back and really spend some time in terms of how we show up to these relationships and I'll say this not just in clinical practice but in our life, in all of our relationships, showing up fully present and open and exuding love and hope, that is foundational to making change.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Yes, it is, and perhaps I will close out by doing two things, sandra. First is to making change. Yes, it is, and perhaps I will close out by doing two things. Sandra, first is to thank you. You were our first inaugural expert on this podcast and boy have you set the mark high. You are setting a very high level of expectation for all of us, appropriately, that we need to be practicing these skills in order to not just benefit ourselves but our patients and I will say this at the very conclusion look to be a psychopharmacologist. If that's what you are is to not limit yourself to just that skill set but to expand it. And positive psychiatry is not for one second excluding the value traditional psychiatry brings to us, but what it does to enhance us and enhance our care better. So, sandra, maybe if you have any final words here, we would love to hear from you, and then I'll close it out. Perfect.
Saundra Jain, MA, PsyD, LPC:Well, first and foremost, thank you for the invitation being with you and with the audience Absolute pleasure. But until next time, my suggestion is keep practicing what's healing, what really helps all of us flourish and become whole again.
Rakesh Jain, MD:Beautiful. So until next time, dear colleagues, as Sandra said, let's keep practicing these positive psychiatry skills, because what heals is also what helps all of us flourish. What heals is also what helps all of us flourish. Okay, folks, thanks so much for joining me on Positive Psychiatry with Dr Rakesh Jain, and I will be talking to you later. Goodbye for now.
